After working across multiple facets of the healthcare industry, Katrina Zheleznyak (NYU Stern, ‘20) decided to get her MBA to transition into the product development function in the healthcare industry. After recruiting for numerous product management roles at traditional and large companies, Zheleznyak decided to change course, and landed a Product Management MBA Internship at a startup. In this interview, Zheleznyak shares her journey to NYU Stern, her experience in the product management recruiting process, and what she learned taking a Product Management Internship at a startup.
MBASchooled: What did you do before business school, and why did you choose to attend business school?
I studied Neurobiology undergrad, and had worked across many facets of the healthcare space, across pharmaceutical R&D, business development for a biotech company, and product strategy for a neuroscience-based music streaming startup. Prior to business school, I was still unsure of the exact role and healthcare sector that interested me most.
As a means of doing my own “due diligence” on the multi-faceted industry, I was working for a healthcare expert network (a mixture of consulting and recruiting) where I could collaborate with and learn from a wide variety of experts, ranging from hospital CEOs and medical device technicians to world famous oncologists and medical school professors. This experience led to two fundamental epiphanies: 1) I was most drawn to the product-focused teams that I worked with, and 2) I didn’t want to stay in client-services, but instead wanted to be on the hands-on product, following a project through from conceptualization to commercialization.
These learnings immediately made my next step clear, as I knew I needed to strengthen my business foundation in order to move ideas from the lab and into the real world. Business school deadlines were rapidly approaching, and I barely had time to get my NYU Stern application in before the third and final date. I truly thought I’d just apply this time around to feel more accountable, and then actually take the time to apply properly in the next cycle. Not to sound too granola, but there must have been some stars that aligned, as I got scheduled for my interview (on my birthday nonetheless!) and was accepted to NYU Stern a few weeks later.
MBASchooled: During your first year, what did you decide to recruit for, and why did you choose that field?
I wrote my application for Stern intending to recruit for product-focused roles (Product Management, Brand Management, etc.) in consumer healthcare or medical devices. I very specifically wanted to avoid pharma, as I had worked in the space prior and was rather disillusioned with price gouging, shady marketing practices, and more generally, the state of conventional medicine in our country. I was looking for a hands-on role at an innovative company, whether corporate or startup, and wanted to work for an organization where I knew I was making a positive impact on the daily lives of consumers.
I ended up working closely with our Graduate Marketing Association (GMA) on roles within the CPG space such as Brand Management at Johnson & Johnson, as well as the Stern Technology Association (STA) to learn more about medical devices, frontier tech, and technical product management within and outside of healthcare. I thought these areas were good extensions of my past work across the life sciences realm, and would put me on the front lines of working with (and hopefully managing) products, which was really my intended pivot and overarching goal for business school.
MBASchooled: What was the internship application and interview process like?
As we are frequently told at Stern, we should stay “focused yet broad” in recruiting. I certainly came in with a specific concept of what I wanted, but I ended up feeling very overwhelmed with opportunity and curious about sectors beyond the life sciences space with which I was so familiar. I ultimately ended up broadening my recruiting plan to include more tech organizations, some financial services, sustainability, and even certain food & beverage companies. My line of thinking was: if I can benefit whatsoever from possibly getting an interview at this place and learning something interesting about a new field, product, or sector, then great!
However rosy that outlook sounds, I definitely ended up spreading myself a bit too thin by applying to so many jobs that I ultimately wouldn’t have enjoyed. I think I applied to over 100 jobs, and that’s because I was essentially doing the full recruiting process for multiple tracks. While not as insane as doubling up on Investment Banking & Consulting, this was certainly a character building challenge (to put it lightly) as I studied up on AI and blockchain in between watching advertisements for toothpaste and Aspirin. There was a point where I realized I needed to call it, as I’d gotten into a black-hold of mindlessly churning out cover letters and applying to more jobs instead of actively strategizing and preparing for the interviews I actually had. It’s such a balance of quality and quantity (just playing the odds), but ultimately I realized if I wouldn’t actually TAKE the job in any parallel universe… then what’s the point?
Although this was arguably the most hectic time of my life, I look back on that time really fondly, and am really glad I pushed myself beyond my comfort zone. I got to know some of my classmates and closest friends through this process, whether through dozens of hours of mock interviews or by sharing interview questions in real-time with everyone else vying for that role. The camaraderie & community definitely got me through it!
MBASchooled: Initially, you received a number of on-campus offers, but ultimately, you decided to go in another direction. How did you come to this decision? How hard was it to make that decision?
Truthfully, I was really lucky to unexpectedly receive an in-semester internship about a month into school, back in August 2018. It was with a CBD company called Recess that was about to launch, and I was intrigued by the prospect of working in this new category, and learning what it really means to “thrive in ambiguity,” as is so often thrown around in business school. It was also an interesting angle to my disillusionment with the current state of healthcare, and I had always thought of cannabis as a huge potential disruptor to medicine as we know it. I decided to ignore the warnings of our Office of Career Development about not taking in-semester internships while recruiting for on-campus jobs Fall semester, as it seemed like too serendipitous an opportunity to pass along.
After working part-time with the company through the winter, I was deep into recruiting for the Johnson & Johnsons of the world. When I actually received several offers – some of which I had literally written about as my “dream jobs” in my NYU application – I felt like I was on a completely different trajectory. I started considering staying on with my startup for a full-time internship, instead of going for the corporate, structured, on-campus opportunities I had been pursuing.
Once I ultimately made the decision to accept my summer offer at Recess, I thought the hardest part was over… but it turned out that going back through my several offers to officially turn them down was a lot harder. At first, I questioned how much to disclose, and if the prospect of my working at a cannabis company would impact my ability to maintain a relationship with those I had met over the interview process. I was also concerned that if something didn’t work out with my startup (perhaps before I even got to my summer internship!), I may lose the opportunity to reconnect with these incredible companies and opportunities down the line. The finality of this outreach was overwhelming, and I realized how much harder this was than the decision itself.
I finally wrote out a script and went down the line, calling my recruiters, the company alumni, and others I had interacted with over the process to let them of my decision to go another direction. I chose to disclose additional details to those that I had maintained deeper relationships with, and was very pleasantly surprised with how supportive everyone was of my decision to go another direction, particularly so for a risky, exciting, potentially career-defining opportunity. Funny enough, a few months after we launched, a couple of my on-campus recruiting contacts actually reached out to let me know how much they loved the Recess brand and product – a nice source of validation!
MBASchooled: What prompted you to pursue a path to a startup versus a big company? How did you find the opportunity?
In considering whether to accept one of the more “conventional” offers, I certainly recognized I may be passing up the reliable, organized learning opportunities awarded by one of NYU’s long-term recruiting partners. However, I also knew coming into business school that I had a rather atypical background and perspective, and wouldn’t have been surprised to get no on-campus offers at all given I didn’t think I was the right personality fit.
Ultimately, I thought about it this way: the overwhelming regret I’d feel passing up working for a potentially market leading startup in a new, exciting space would far outweigh the regret I’d feel missing out on a typical, prescribed internship experience. I knew that I’d have the opportunity for exit strategies either way, whether working for other early stage startups, or pivoting back to an established company either in healthcare or in the consumer packaged goods space. If someone didn’t want to hire me in the future due to having worked at a cannabis company, I also knew that I likely wouldn’t have wanted to work with that person or at that company anyways, if they couldn’t appreciate this industry for the fascinating case study that it is.
In full honesty, I found this opportunity through networking and sheer luck. I remember starting business school and laughing to myself at just how much everyone seemed to be obsessed with “the network,” more so than classes or any technical skills. Yet, it was truly talking about my interests and curiosities – which happened to be CBD at the time, given the category had just emerged the same month we started school – which brought me not only to my current job, but to my entire career path. I had a well-time conversation with a close business school friend about hemp and the blossoming cannabis industry, and she ended up introducing me to someone she knew from college – who happened to be launching a CBD company that next week. Talk about serendipity!
This experience not only opened my eyes to the incredible power of networking, but also inspired me to really pursue this cannabis track and to stay open to unexpected opportunity from all angles. Since then, I have not only gotten to be on the front-lines of a truly market leading CBD company, I’ve gotten involved in lobbying and policy in the New York cannabis space, I’ve been on panels and in published interviews, and am so excited to build a career around something I may have never otherwise pursued – if not for the true alignment of luck, timing, and putting myself out there.
MBASchooled: Given your experience, did you enjoy your summer internship?
Yes, although it was absolutely NOT what I expected! I think everyone can talk about the ambiguity and uncertainty of working at a startup, but I highly recommend anyone interested in the space – whether from an operating company or an investment perspective – see how they assimilate into the environment firsthand (or don’t). There were many aspects of the culture that felt seamless to me: my teammates were incredibly creative, there was a very open and cross-functional culture, and everyone truly bought into and supported the mission and vision.
On the other hand, I think it was a bit harder to “get the hang of things” when there was no best practice or existing protocols in place, especially right after our launch. That often meant having to be more proactive, stepping up, and creating that structure myself! While this felt like a challenge at first, I very quickly saw it as the learning opportunity that it was, and found myself leading projects I never would have been able to in a more junior position in a large corporation.
MBASchooled: Given your internship recruiting process and the highs and lows, what were things that you did that you felt helped you navigate the process/stay calm?
Although I definitely spread myself far too thin with the breadth of my recruiting, I did find it helpful to have not one but several back-up plans. This not only took the pressure off of feeling like there was ONE ideal job or path for me, but also gave me additional interview practice for those truly high-weight, critical rounds.
I also think that finding friends that were similarly following their own paths (both within and outside of business school), not necessarily within the rigid MBA recruiting tracks, was really helpful in remembering that I have to stick to my guns. When I’d hear about certain other students’ starting salaries, or about how helpful consulting can be for opening infinite professional doors, I have to admit I’d often second guess how deeply I was diving into the ambiguity of the startup realm. It took a few good friends and family members to remind me of what I was looking for in a post-graduation role (short and long-term), and even to re-read my application essays to stay grounded and true to myself. Find those allies, remember your values, and make sure to really get to know the companies and industries you’re recruiting for so you know what you’re getting into – and what you’re going to get out of it.
MBASchooled: What advice do you have for MBA interns who might be challenged with selecting an internship, or potentially taking a risk on something ?
For me personally, I cannot stress enough how grateful I am to have TAKEN A RISK! Business school is one of the most risk-tolerant times to explore and do your own due diligence – although the hefty price tag and short timeline can make it feel less forgiving. Turning down the corporate opportunities and accepting my role at Recess over the summer not only crystallized my desire to delve headfirst into the startup world, but also galvanized me to become more of a student leader on campus to share my experience, and (hopefully) give others more confidence to do the same thing. I recognized that finding startup roles or opportunities off-campus can be daunting, especially when there is a more reliable payoff for many of the structured, straightforward on-campus recruiting tracks.
Beyond the ambiguity and higher risk around startup recruiting, I was deeply struck by how much I was learning working in a brand-new industry like cannabis – and how much market potential was seemingly untapped in the space. I had finally found a role where I could not only make a decent living (even if in several years!), but actually tap into my existing passions AND make a positive difference in the world. The business-school fallacy of “choosing two of the three” was disproven! I couldn’t wait to start building out a recruiting pipeline with cannabis employers, facilitating education opportunities to better qualify students to move into the space, and push NYU towards responsible thought leadership in a space desperately begging for business, strategy, and academic research.
In an effort to leave a positive legacy on the school and community I loved so much, I took these experiences and learnings to help build up, approve, and run the NYU Stern CannaBusiness Club (and recently, the NYU CannaLaw and CannaPolicy graduate student cannabis clubs at NYU Law School and NYU Wagner School of Public Policy, respectively!). Over the past two years, we have built up a passionate student population of over 200 students across three schools, with over a dozen corporate and nonprofit partners, and an accredited class on cannabis running at NYU Stern – for its second year in a row! All of these accomplishments have far surpassed any reasonable expectations I had going in to the program, and again, speak to the unpredictable, incredible nature of the MBA journey.
For those not so interested in cannabis (or burgeoning, more volatile industries), I’ll give a bit broader of advice. I hate to repeat what they tell you during orientation, but… stay focused, yet broad! It’s really true, and makes me think of that old saying, “fortune favors the bold.” I would never recommend coming into business school with no plan at all, as it’s ultimately impossible to stay afloat and feel like you’re making the right strategic decisions when you’re bombarded by workshops, lectures, classes, applications, interviews, and beyond. It’s so easy to shift off course, and two years of business school will be over before you know it.
However, due to this deluge of opportunity, you also need to stay open-minded. Despite having interests, values, and general goals, there are so many awesome choices, people, and experiences you could never have imagined encountering before business school. If and when those come along, it’s critical to have a core framework through which you can prioritize your time and energy, but one that also allows you to be agile, and build out your business foundation. No better, lower-risk time than during your summer internship to explore something you could really make a career out of – and I couldn’t be more grateful that’s what I did!